With war imminent, the interview between Pastor Greg Laurie and best-selling end-times author, Hal Lindsey, proves to be relevant and compelling. The following is the copy of that very timely interview taken on Wednesday, March 5, at Harvest Christian Fellowship.

Greg: This good-looking young man sitting next to me here is Hal Lindsey. You've all heard of him. You might be one of the 35 million people literally who have bought a copy of Hal's classic book on Bible prophecy The Late Great Planet Earth. It has touched people all around the world.

Hal Lindsey is an expert on Bible prophecy. I remember when I first read his book it was the first time I was really able to understand how all of these events fit together, because he has such a great way of taking something that is very complex and making it very understandable.

The Late Great Planet Earth was the number one selling nonfiction book of the whole decade of the '70s. It has sold 35 million copies. Time Magazine called Hal Lindsey the "Jeremiah of our generation."

He has written many books after The Late Great Planet Earth. Here is one called, The Final Chapter. Here is his newest book, The Everlasting Hatred.

Hal: I think that is one of the most important books God has given me since The Late Great Planet Earth. The United States needs to know about the danger of Islam. I think this will give new perspective.

Greg: We will talk about that a little bit. He has DVD's available. Here is one, Ready for War. We are talking about that a lot. We will talk about that this evening. Hal, didn't you tell me that Evidences of the End Times was sort of an update on The Late Great Planet Earth?

Hal: That's right. It is the most up to date thing that I have done.

Greg: This is all available at a book table, as you leave tonight, in the very back. You might want to grab some of those things and check them out for yourself.

Let's just jump right into it and talk a little bit about Bible prophecy. There are people that would say, "Come on, this whole business about Jesus coming back again. My grandmother used to say that. I believed it in the early '70s. I wore out my copy of The Late Great Planet Earth. I have gone through 18 "Jesus is Coming" bumper stickers. He is not here yet. What is going on?" Why would you say that we are living in the last days? What distinguishes the time we live in today to maybe people living two or three generations ago?

Hal: When I came to know the Lord in 1955, shortly after that I was introduced to Bible prophecy. At the very beginning God showed me an exact scenario that prophecy fit into. It all revolved around Israel being reborn as a nation. That is the key sign to all prophecy. So He showed me that there would be four spheres of political power that would develop around Israel reborn. In the north, Russia. In the south, the Muslim confederacy. In the east, China and other nations of Asia. In the west, a revived form of the ancient Roman culture in Europe. He sort of showed me that and that this would continue to develop. He also showed me that, as Jesus talked about in Matthew 24, He said there would be birth pains. Like birth pains they would increase in frequency and intensity.

The reason I believe that Jesus is coming very soon is because every one of those factors that I was shown then, has continued to develop, and now they are in the exact pattern of what God said they would be.

Greg: Like birth pains, at first they come and there is a little time between them. As you get closer to the birth they get closer together. You can't get up a day without reading something in the newspaper that is alarming. You wonder if this is a part of Bible prophecy. I mean, just in the conflict going on in the Middle East right now.

We hear all of these terms, the rapture of the church, the second coming, Armageddon, the Antichrist, the millennial period. In a nutshell, just a quick overview, give us a bird's eye view on the chronology of prophetic events. My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is the next event on the prophetic calendar would be the rapture of the church. What would happen after that?

Hal: I believe that we are almost there. The last piece of this prophetic puzzle that had to develop was Europe. Now I believe they are almost ready for their final phase of God's appointed stage for them.

Then suddenly and without warning the Bible promises that Christ is going to come and snatch out every living believer in the twinkling of an eye. The Greek word in 1 Thessalonians 4 is harpazo. It was used to describe a pickpocket. It was a move that was done quickly and skillfully. That is the very word that is used to describe how Christ is coming. That is why I never called it the rapture. I call it the great snatch. That is what it is going to be.

Hal: Immediately after the rapture there are two things that will take place.

One, there will be a great falling away, a great rebellion against everything known about the true God and rejection of knowledge about the true God. Secondly, there will be a man in Europe who is alive and well somewhere there right now.

Greg: Do you think the Antichrist is alive right now?

Hal: I do. I believe he is not only alive but he has reached the stage where he is ready to be revealed. He cannot be revealed until the Holy Spirit and His restraining ministry is taken out of the way. And, of course, that restraining ministry is accomplished in a large measure through His dwelling in every living believer. Once the rapture happens, the Holy Spirit's restraint is taken away. It says he will be revealed. Apparently his unveiling will be with a mortal wound. He will be mortally wounded and miraculously raised from the dead, and I think it is raising from the dead. As soon as that takes place he will rapidly begin to take over. He will take the ten strongest nations out of the European Union and fuse together a power. He will rule out of Rome. Once he brings those together, he will apparently resolve the Middle East problem.

Greg: They would hail him as the very Messiah Himself if he did that.

Hal: That's right. Exactly. He will apparently very quickly do that. He will be so successful that he will negotiate the political right for Israel to rebuild the temple. So that takes place. Then apparently, there will be a number of people left behind and they will be people who did not understand the gospel. They heard it, but they didn't understand it. They will say, "I heard that hippie kook Greg Laurie talk about all of these people disappearing. Now it has happened. We had better believe in what he was talking about." In other words, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to come to know the Lord. There is going to be a great persecution break out against them during that period. Then, it is in the first three and a half years the Antichrist will consolidate his power and pull all the nations behind him.

Greg: And there will be peace. Peace and safety. A pseudo peace. Not a real peace.

Hal: People will think it is a real peace. They will admire him as one of the greatest men who has ever lived. By the way, there is something, I don't know how to explain it, God has never shown me what He is going to do, he has only hinted at it in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-14. Have you ever stopped to think how the Antichrist will get everyone to believe in one religion? His cohort, the Jew, who will be the false prophet will help him with this. Have you ever thought what astounding thing would have to take place to get a Muslim to accept another religion? Or a Buddhist to accept another religion? Or a Shinto? Or whatever, a Christian Scientist? A Mormon? Something so stupendous is going to happen that everyone will reset their whole thinking about God and forsake all of these centuries of tradition of religion and believe in one. Something as startling as the demons impersonating extraterrestrials or something like that. Some kind of delusion. I don't know what it will be. But that's part of it.

Then he will go on the ultimate ego trip. In the middle of the tribulation, that three and a half year period, he will set up a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies, . . .

Greg: The abomination of desolation.

Hal: and then he will declare himself to be God. Apparently, this is what causes things to begin to break up. Because then, there is an invasion. The Russians will lead an invasion, a confederacy of Muslim powers, most of them nations that are around Israel according to Ezekiel 38.

Greg: Magog, right.

Hal: He will lead this great onslaught against Israel and move on into Africa and be consolidating his control over Africa. I am going from Daniel 11:40-45 which, I believe, gives a battle plan. Once the Russian commander goes into Egypt, it says news from the north and from the east will trouble him. Standing in Egypt, looking northward, he would be looking at Europe. This would be apparently the Antichrist mustering the western forces to counter attack. And looking eastward from there he would be looking at Asia. Revelation 16:12-14 talks about the kings of the east (plural) coming with 200 million soldiers. I believe it is not accidental that North Korea is starting up a nuclear program.

Greg: Do you think they could play into the scenario of the kings of the east?

Hal: I think they can. I think they will be a small part of it. Just look at two great nations in Asia now. India and China. Between them they have about 2.3 billion people.

Greg: They could field that army of 200 million.

Hal: Easily. In fact I saw a statistic recently that showed that China could send 200 million soldiers and still have 100 million to defend their homeland.

Greg: No one could match that, but themcould they? They all come together basically, in probably the battle of Armageddon.

Hal: What happens is they destroy Russia and the Muslim forces. That leaves the forces of the west led by the Roman Antichrist facing the Asian forces. That is when blood stands to the horses bridle. I believe that, as it says when it talks about Armageddon, it doesn't say battle. The word polemas in the Greek means war because a war has many battles. Apparently there will be a number of battles, but the worst will be this final phase with Asia and the Western forces facing off. That is when almost all of the population of the earth will be wiped out.

Greg: Then the Second Coming.

Hal: That's it. When apparently the planet will come to a point, Jesus said that unless those days were cut short no one would be left alive. Apparently, during those terrible battles, which I think are nuclear exchanges and everything else, the ecology of the world will be so devastated, as Isaiah 24 talks about, it will be so polluted it won't sustain life. Unless Jesus comes back at the moment in history that He does to reset the ecology, there wouldn't be anyone left alive.

Greg: Babylon is destroyed in one hour. The kings of the earth stand at a distance for fear of its torment, may be a description of radioactive fallout.

Hal: Could be.

Greg: We hear North Korea, Russia, Israel. Where is the United States of America? We are the undisputed superpower in the world today and yet as one studies Bible prophecy you are hard pressed to find us. Where do we fit? Do you think we will fall into place with the united forces of the Antichrist? Or will there be something else that will take us out of the picture? How do you see that?

Hal: That's very interesting. Last year I did a video called Where is America in Prophecy?, because I got so personally concerned about this. There is no question that since World War II we are the undisputed power of the world. But, when you look at Bible prophecy the leader of the west is very clear. Regardless of whether the United States is in prophecy or not, I don't believe we are, one thing that is in prophecy very clearly, and that is the leader of the west. It has to be based out of Rome and I believe nations in Europe. Since that is true that means something catastrophic has to happen to the United States. I made this just before 9/11. I really believe the United States does not have to be destroyed to cease to be a world power. If we get hit by some more major terrorist attacks it could so disrupt and devastate our economy we would cease to be a world power. That could happen very quickly. It is my opinion that something like that is going to happen. I say that with tears because I love this country.

Greg: I was talking with Billy Graham on the phone the other day and we were talking about this war with Iraq. He said, "The only thing we really can do is preach the gospel." I think that is so important.

Let me bounce another scenario off of you. We have so many Americans that claim to be Christians. Millions and millions. Are they all Christians? Only God knows. What if 50 million Americans are Christians? The rapture happens. The Antichrist can't really come on the scene until the Rapture takes place. What about the Rapture of so many believers in America? Our president is a follower of Jesus Christ. Members of his cabinet. Members of the military. In the economic world. In the business world. You name it and there are Christians everywhere. Wouldn't that be a possibility with all of those questions removed? We would almost collapse overnight.

Hal: I believe that when the rapture occurs it will devastate the United States by a lot of people going. I am so grateful that our president is a believer.

Greg: Thank God for our military and thank God for all those things we can utilize, our intelligence, apprehending the second in command at Al-Quaida. These are good things. But at the same time we have to recognize we have to call out to God and say, "Lord, help our country. Help our people to turn back to You again in faith." We need a spiritual awakening. It seems to me if more would be actual believers in Jesus Christ and live with half as much passion as some of these Islamic fundamentalists have, we could turn our nation and world upside down.

War is on everybody's minds. We see this conflict with Iraq. They claim to be disarming but our president doesn't seem to be buying it. Obviously he is privy to information that the mass public does not have. It looks like we are going to strike. I think we have 300 thousand troops deployed over there. I was just reading about our basic plan of attack, which we would barrage them. We were talking a little bit about some of the weaponry. You mentioned the electromagnetic pulse bomb that could be used. If we go into war against Iraq, how do you see that playing out and how could it potentially get out of control and even potentially, not saying it would, but it could lead to some of the scenarios we have already talked about?

Hal: Our soldiers are in tremendous danger there. They have biological and chemical weapons. They have them weaponized. They have them in munitions that they can fire at our troops. I don't know how far they can reach out, but I know they can hit our troops. This is why a weapon that has really been developed in just the last few years, the EMP, electromagnetic pulse bomb, will be used first. What this does is fry the chips in the computers in all of the automobiles and everything that uses any kind of chip or solenoid in it. It will absolutely fry it.

Greg: This thing just stops all communication. You told me that it could stop a vehicle from running. A cell phone wouldn't work. A computer wouldn't work. Lights would go out, sound systems, television, all communication.

Hal: There will basically be guys in caves looking out. Here is the problem. These only cover a certain area. Saddam Hussein has already given field commanders orders to launch these weapons. They are way out in the field. Many of them are out in the west part of Iraq. He said that if communication is broken launch your weapons. We have to pray that they will disobey the order. Because these weapons could cause tremendous casualties, the first 24 hours we will see the most number of bombs explode on the Baghdad area that has ever happened in any war. Whether that can stop the launch of these weapons remains to be seen. We know it is a threat because Israel right now has three squadrons standing on what we call the five-minute alert, ready five. There are three squadrons armed with neutron bombs.

Greg: It reminds me of a t-shirt I saw in Israel years ago. It has a picture of an Israeli jet and underneath is the statement, Dont worry America. Israel will save you.

Hal: This is one time, like last time Israel wasn't allowed to get into it.

Greg: They dropped the scud missiles on Israel and they just had to take it. But they are not going to take it this time.

Hal: No. They will get involved in it. The great concern right now is that Syria and Lebanon will get into this war.

I am sure you are aware of this passage in Isaiah 17:1 that talks about the total obliteration of Damascus. That has never happened, of course, before. It doesn't seem to be connected with the wars of Armageddon. There is a real chance that Damascus could get hit. Israel has already said launch one weapon from Lebanon or Syria on Israel and we will obliterate Damascus. Somebody might be stupid enough to send one over on Israel. They had better duck.

Greg: That could happen and be removed from the whole Armageddon scenario.

Hal: It could, yes it could.

Greg: Could you see anything in this war with Iraq potentially leading to perhaps Magog moving in or any of the other scenarios we have discussed? Do you think it will be a pretty contained war that will have a beginning, middle, and end and that will be it?

Hal: I personally believe that the Magog war, the Russia leading the Muslim confederacy happens in the tribulation, because the war that begins there continues to escalate until only Christ can stop it. Secondly, because the whole purpose of God allowing that war according to Ezekiel 36 through 39 is to cause the Israelites to turn to their God. To put them in such peril that there is no way out and they finally turn to their true God.

Greg: They have a spiritual revival in Israel.

Hal: If that were to happen before the tribulation there wouldn't be any need for the tribulation. I don't think that is it. I think what we are in for right now may be a mini Armageddon. A prelude.

Greg: A dress rehearsal maybe.

Hal: A dress rehearsal. Something has to really frighten the world to get it ready to receive the Antichrist. I don't think we are quite ready to receive him right now. Something really drastic and frightening has to happen. Maybe this is the one that will come so close to getting out of hand the world will be so terrified they will be ready to accept this leader.

Greg: With all of these things happening, Hal, people are alarmed, they are afraid. They are out buying duct tape by the boxes. What are we supposed to do? What does the Bible tell us as believers who are living in the last days believing Christ could come back very easily in our life time, what should we be focusing our energies on? What should we be concerned with as believers?

Hal: I am redoing a book I did in the '80s called Combat Faith. I think that was one of the most important books God ever gave me personally. I know the concepts I talked about in Combat Faith saved my life. I am going to call this new book Faith for Earth's Final Hour.

For believers right now, I believe the most important thing you can do is to learn to enter God's rest according to Hebrews 4. We need to reverse a trend. It used to be said about a person who got really excited about Christ, "he is so heavenly minded he is no earthly good." The problem today is the church at large is so earthly minded it is no heavenly good. I believe that we have to take advantage of what God has provided for every believer and that is to learn to live in the light of the unseen.

Moses in Hebrews 11 was commended because he lived as though seeing Him who is invisible. I believe that God has provided a way for us to enter into a whole new realm by faith by learning to believe the promises of God. Whatever God promised, He will keep; no matter what. We need to learn that we can enter into a reality that the promise of God is more real than what we feel, what we see, what we hear. Even though the world is falling apart around us, God says He will keep us.

Just think about what the Israelites were up against when Moses led them out of Egypt. It says in Exodus that Moses led them to the Red Sea. The Holy Spirit is very careful to show that he led them into a cul-de-sac. There were two hill ranges on either side. At their eastern back was the Red Sea. They had seen God work stupendous miracles to get the mightiest nation on earth to free them and they didn't even have an army. God deliberately led them into this trap. It says, "When they lifted up their eyes, they saw all the chariots of Pharaoh closing that one way out." I always say they lifted up their eyes, but not high enough. It was a fearful situation. You have to stop and ask, "why did God do that?" He led them there. He continued to lead them into one problem or another. He deliberately led them into that trap because He wanted them to learn how to practice spiritual geometry. If you know any two parts of a right triangle, you can figure out the unknown part. I like to say that your salvation experience is like the base of the triangle. Every time God has been faithful to you and kept His Word when you believed Him is like the height of the triangle. All of a sudden here is 'X' the hypotenuse. Their base was He saved them, Passover. Their experience of God delivering them, with the miracles. Now here is 'X', the chariots of Pharaoh. What did He expect them to do? He expected them to fall on their knees and say, "Lord, we have seen You keep Your Word. We know you are powerful. We know you are faithful. You have promised you are going to take us to the Promised Land, so we can't wait to see what you are going to do to these Egyptians." But they didn't say that. They just griped.

But there was one man that cracked the faith barrier; that was Moses. Moses believed God. God said, "Stop praying and stretch your rod over the sea and command it to part." He did. Those are not fairy tales. Those are real historical accounts. God holds that up in Hebrews 4 and says when we believe God we enter His rest. Turmoil may still be there on the outside. But when we believe God's promise, He is going to work. We are entering those kinds of fearful times, big time.

When I was a young believer, I was so simple. I took a small spiral notebook and every time I found a new promise I would write it down. I think that would be a good idea. Start with how many promises you know right now. If you know ten for different situations and believe them it would be enough to enter God's rest in even the most troubled times. I think more than anything else we need to learn to enter God's rest. Crack that faith barrier and go into that area where we look at the things that are not seen and not at the things that are seen. We realize, like Gehazi did with Elisha when surrounded by all the troops. Gehazi said, "What are we doing to do?" Elisha said, "Don't be afraid. Those who are for us are more than those that are against us. Lord open his eyes." He opened his eyes and saw chariots of fire all around them. That is around you too. I believe it is time to learn to believe the promises of God and enter into that realm where we know that our only protection in the final analysis is God and His faithfulness to His Word to us.

Greg: Thank you Hal. Thank you very much. Let's pray.